14c28n steel vs d2 14c28n steel vs d2

and get better and longer-lasting performance? The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. As to a difference between 8.6 and 8.5, all of the ratings here are rounded to the nearest 0.5 because better than that probably shows false precision. It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. Looks like there is no reason to us it over 420HC. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. Have you tested K390 sufficiently to be able to rate it? 1095. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. [Steel Knife Review], What is 14c28n steel? For high wear resistance and edge retention you want a large amount of hard carbides. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. In particular, I really care about the toughness / hardness part. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. Type 8Cr, the more common formulation, is worse than AUS-8: a little more prone to corrosion and not quite as hard. 2. Some steel companies charge more than others. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. the more complex fracture toughness at least lets you make some estimates in this sence. Most of these steels rely on particle metallurgy and are therefore more expensive. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. For example, D2 has enough chromium to be stainless (~12%) but its high carbon means that too much chromium carbide is formed to leave enough chromium for stainless levels of corrosion resistance. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. 14C28N H1 I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. Several factors arent related to the steel you choose but seriously affect the nature of your knifes performance. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. AR-RPM9 The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. Ive seen more talk and some articles regarding the use of AI to come up with new potential drug molecules, polymeric materials, etc. How do its properties compare to other steels? But weve tested this metal in the form of the Sobata 398 for nearly a year and have been continually impressed. Sorry about the misinformation. It will take you more time and energy to get a sharp edge, but your efforts will pay off because the blades hold the edge longer. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. 14C28N vs. D2. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. Very much appreciate you. Its an anomaly in the knife world and quite puzzling to use. Thanks. MC66 Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. Cookie Notice Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. Steel ratings are not about ranking steels in terms of what is better than another, but understanding the different balances such as toughness vs edge retention. They made planer blades out D2 for its edge retention. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. So the major tradeoff is in how much carbide you want in the steel for edge retention without dropping toughness too much for the intended knife and user. 420 Simple, non-stainless steels of medium carbon content like 5160 also boast high toughness. Marco, BSc Chem. However, this edge retention comes at the cost of sharpening ease for D2. As from features, for presenting d2 continue to grow in the knife industry, generally because of their working performance and reasonable price, a lot of superior low budget knives are building their reputation. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. Its in the same class as Vanadis 8 and 10V. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. n690 D2. You cant look at only the chromium content of the steel to know the level of corrosion resistance. This is one of the fundamental tradeoffs in steel. If you are a newbie, sharpening D2 knives will be a struggle, but it is doable with practice and the right sharpening tools. With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. The sharpening makes the knives easy to maintain because they dull faster and require frequent sharpening. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: I will be focusing on CATRA edge retention which measures abrasive wear of knives. Both of those things are no longer an issue as I now have way too many articles and a book. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. Very acute edges are more brittle but remain sharp for longer and cut very well. You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. Not every wood is soft pine. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. 14C28N steel also has excellent wear resistance due to its high chromium content. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. H2 Steels like CPM MagnaCut, CPM M4, CPM 4V, and CPM CruWear fit in this category. Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. . Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? However, the 14c28n provides perfect edge retention with a maximum hardness of 62Hrc and the mixture of Chromium and Carbon. The steel falls under the Sandvik series of steels and makes one of the 7 steel grades in this family including 12C27M, 14C28N, 13C26, and others. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. There are a few aspects to your question, I think. They make excellent everyday carry steels, especially for light- and medium-duty tasks. There are a lot of different types of steel out there . and corrosion resistance than the 420HC steel. quite possibly the best steel youll find on a sub-$30 production knife. 14C28N Vs D2 . 440B Very obtuse edges resist chipping better but dont hold their edge as long and dont cut as well. (Some crazy folks clean their Swiss Army knivesin adishwasher. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. It can build a knife that sustains a sharp cutting edge for long periods and is sufficiently wear-resistant. grivory For this perfect size that for most tasks and the slim tip allows the knife to excel at piercing and detail work. Or even a 7 in both categories. MagnaCut has the lowest chromium of any of the below steels but all of its chromium is in solution (no chromium carbide) and the fact that it has no chromium carbide also gives it the maximum level of corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. Let the job at hand be your guide. Why do you give a coin with a knife as a gift? Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. Hammering through hickory, digging at roots in sandy soil, and cutting around bone did nothing to chip, dent, or roll the edge of my 3V knives. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. This was not necessarily because of superior toughness but because of the superior strength of the MagnaCut from higher hardness. Ive found S35VN less chippy even at the same hardness. The ratings in this article rate ease of sharpening primarily based on wear resistance, but if a knife is difficult to sharpen, there may be other factors in play. 14C28N vs. D2. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. S90V It boasts an incredible ability to continue cutting long after it seems dull. And its not made of steel. Its exceedingly tough and relatively hard, but its not stainless. Stainless steels usually top out around 64 Rc and may require careful heat treating to get there. So what is the best steel for knives? It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. Required fields are marked *. in the correct place for the stainless-toughness-edge-retention graphic? It is a premium steel that is known for its excellent balance of hardness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Approximately the same hardness, yes. D2 is mainly considered decent budget steel that comes with better edge retention than the 14C28N. 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. Monday-Friday Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. But in use, Ive found nothing that withstands the abuse that 3V can take. Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. I also have meat cleaver 1,4116 ,58RC that I order and was looking up if its a good steel or did waist money and need to return it. A more obtuse edge angle is much more resistant to chipping than an acute edge. There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. With a high level ofedge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness, it does most everything quite well. . D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25? Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. Note:Dont bother with anything less than 8Cr in this series. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. Flashlights run the gamut of price and quality. CPM 3V One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Even metallurgists can have a difficult time estimating properties just based on the elements. 14C28N is a type of high-performance stainless steel used in knife-making. This is the steel used in Swiss Army knives and is excellent for beginner sharpeners. It had better than expected corrosion resistance due to the lack of chromium carbides, a behavior also seen in MagnaCut. On the other hand the professional performing blade steels sharpen to a razor edge and hold the edge for an extended use. Toughness 3, Edge Ret 8, Cor Res 4? 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. I like it. These steels are typically used by forging bladesmiths, traditional folders, and some production fixed blades. That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. The knives are ideal for both indoor and outdoor use. In the context of a knife this would be chipped edges or broken knives. Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? It gets exceptionally sharp, a nod to its origins as a razorblade steel. Hit like and all t. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Many knife enthusiasts are concerned with categorizing steels as excellent, good, poor, etc. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. Or even if they try to be more open to importance of toughness, the good reputation of the high edge retention steels means that they get inflated toughness ratings along with it. These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. Read more. Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. The biggest change that is seen with powder metallurgy in measured properties is in regards to toughness. 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. s30v Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. A cryo treatment and close temperature control is necessary to achieve those hardness levels. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. The steel loses some of the chromium in solution for corrosion resistance to form these fine carbides for hardness. Quite an eyeopener! It's more often pitted against the VG10 since both are widely popular high-carbon stainless steel grades. I cant seem to match steel to the SS data points on the toughness/tcc graph. Your email address will not be published. Read more about how it works here. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. Combination of knife steel properties. In real life, would you expect any presumed increase in deviation from the specified formula, as well as the effects of said deviation, to negatively impact the performance of 8Cr13MoV to any truly noticeable degree? Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. SG2 I reserve the right to change my ratings based on new information. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. But keep in mind that no steel is perfect for everything. The steel is similar to Sandviks 13C26. EDGE RETENTION . He is the mind and writer behind Knife Steel Nerds, the go-to source for all knowledge about knife steel. Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. These are Chinese-produced steels that recently started showing up in Chinese-made knives. It improves wear resistance and hardenability. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. No idea. They represent the absolute best performers on the market in terms of their specific attributes. Can you contact me via my email address so I can send you a copy in PDF and epub. That is an air-hardening- high carbon, high chromium tool steel. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? first there might have been some annealing going on (even if its was a microscopic level) and the steels might have reacted differently. The maximum edge retention available in this group is not particularly high because most of the wear resistance comes from iron carbide, also called cementite, which is the softest of the different carbide types. What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. This does not predict which knife will cut longer or be more resistant to chipping. 440A has more chromium in solution along with a small addition of Mo, but has significant amounts of carbide so the two are an interesting comparison. In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. It is an upgrade of 12C27, and 13C26 steel initially used to make blades for shaving razors. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. I have two quick questions, Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. All rights reserved. Most of these steels are carbon steels, except for CPM MagnaCut (the fancy steel cooked up specifically for knives by Dr. Thomas), which has excellent corrosion resistance. 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail.